|
Post by Zi on Jan 29, 2023 14:19:51 GMT
I'm curious as to whether pianists here play mostly acoustic or digital pianos and what the differences are. If any. I hope I'm not going to start one of those rows à la Dylan shouldn't gone electric...
|
|
|
Post by pavane on Jan 29, 2023 15:00:18 GMT
Piano is yet another instrument I've played around with, so although this doesn't answer your question exactly, I can tell you that one big difference is how much noise they make. There was a time in my 40s when a friend offered me a digital piano fairly cheaply because he'd acquired his dad's really expensive one owing to said dad no longer playing it; having played piano for a few years in my 20s I decided I'd buy it off him and have another go. The piano I got was the cheapest Yamaha that had a proper weighted keyboard. Nothing special, but good to learn on and, most useful of all, you could play it through headphones. I was living in a fairly small terraced house at the time. I've never liked other people being able to hear me play, but I could play this either through speakers with the volume quite low or silently on headphones. After a while I bought a "proper" acoustic piano. It didn't fit under the window where I'd had the Yamaha and I had to put it on a party wall. The neighbours complained (politely) about the noise and that pretty much killed it for me - my playing tapered off quite rapidly to the point where I stopped altogether.
|
|
|
Post by corenfa on Jan 29, 2023 15:54:45 GMT
Acoustic because I could not learn what I needed to on digital. I needed to learn voicing and tone production. My eye opening moment came when I played in a piano event held at Steinway Hall along with several other pianists. We were all playing the same Steinway grand that cost more than my flat. I had my performance recorded and I managed to make that very expensive Steinway sound like a digital piano. There was zero difference in my tone in different passages. I heard at least five other pianists manage to get different tone colours out of that piano, so it wasn't the piano.
This doesn't mean that digital pianos are bad. It just meant I couldn't do what I needed to on one. I wanted to take my diploma and for that I would need to know more than just how to press the right keys in the right order. I'm certainly not against them as I'm about to update my ancient digital to a better one, for late night practising.
|
|
|
Post by Zi on Jan 29, 2023 16:51:05 GMT
Mr Z plays digital and uses headphones. I'd love to be able to use headphones on the recorders and especially the clarinet.
It's a shame, Pavane, that you didn't have much of a chance to decide for yourself whether piano was right for you but that would be an entirely different timeline.
corenfa - I see what you mean. It's this difference between 'notes' and 'music' again. Agree totally over digital being better for private practising.
I'm not sure if this is a strange question but it's a long time since I've been in the same room as an acoustic piano but do they have more of a percussive sound than digital or can digital create that effect? I keep insisting that the harpsichord is quite percussive because of the sound of the keys being struck.
|
|
|
Post by evergreen on Jan 29, 2023 17:44:07 GMT
I've never used a high-end digital, and it might well be that the really expensive digitals compare well with acoustics in terms of tone, dynamic range etc. A good quality digital is probably better than a poor quality acoustic. There are lots of advantages to digitals - they don't need tuning, you can use headphones, they're portable, you can get an entry level digital for not very much money etc. My digital was only basic so I couldn't get much range of tone or dynamics, so I'm happy now to have an acoustic. And it makes me feel like a proper pianist, even if I'm not
|
|
|
Post by evergreen on Jan 29, 2023 17:47:47 GMT
I'm not sure if this is a strange question but it's a long time since I've been in the same room as an acoustic piano but do they have more of a percussive sound than digital or can digital create that effect? I'm not sure how the two compare, but I would say the pedal smooths out and softens any percussiveness on an acoustic.
|
|
|
Post by corenfa on Jan 29, 2023 17:53:21 GMT
I've never used a high-end digital, and it might well be that the really expensive digitals compare well with acoustics in terms of tone, dynamic range etc. A good quality digital is probably better than a poor quality acoustic. There are lots of advantages to digitals - they don't need tuning, you can use headphones, they're portable, you can get an entry level digital for not very much money etc. My digital was only basic so I couldn't get much range of tone or dynamics, so I'm happy now to have an acoustic. And it makes me feel like a proper pianist, even if I'm not The high end digitals don't yet compare with acoustics in every respect especially tone production (I've just been auditioning a few). However, they now provide a very accurate feel of a real piano. As for being a "proper pianist"... If you play the piano, you are a proper pianist!
|
|
|
Post by keff on Jan 29, 2023 20:34:58 GMT
Corenfa, when you were auditioning the digitals did you compare the effect of the sustain pedal and did the digital sustain muddy the sound as quickly as it does on an acoustic ?
|
|
|
Post by corenfa on Jan 29, 2023 22:30:10 GMT
Corenfa, when you were auditioning the digitals did you compare the effect of the sustain pedal and did the digital sustain muddy the sound as quickly as it does on an acoustic ? I did test the sustain pedal and it was very close to the acoustic
|
|
|
Post by Zi on Jan 30, 2023 10:14:02 GMT
How do you test a piano? Is there something you should look for in particular. On the recorder I have a couple of notes I'd check. Edgar Hunt has notes and transitions that he suggests for the descant - sadly not for any other recorder. On a harp forum once, someone said that the top notes of a harp are never in tune. So does a piano have things you should look for?
I'm just curious. I'm curious about almost anything really...
|
|
|
Post by corenfa on Jan 30, 2023 10:26:05 GMT
This is a long subject about which I am happy to write loads as I have been thinking about this a lot... Will do so when I'm not at work.
|
|
|
Post by corenfa on Feb 1, 2023 19:06:43 GMT
So, how do I test a piano. It may not be how anyone else tests pianos, but here you go.
Some of the basics are sort of obvious, like the keys and pedals shouldn't be sticky. All the bits of piano should function.
There are different aspects that I look for depending on whether I'm looking for an acoustic or digital, so I'll mention those separately.
When I was auditioning acoustic pianos, I took as wide a variety of music as I could, so my entire diploma programme. Bach, Mozart, Chopin, and Menotti. I wanted to see how it sounded and felt for each different genre. I was looking for the possibility of making different sounds and tone colours. This was difficult to ascertain as I wasn't a very good pianist myself then. I managed to get quite a lot out of listening to someone else trying pianos- there was a family at the same piano showroom evidently trying pianos, and they'd brought along who I think was their piano teacher. He was trying the same thing on all the pianos including a few I was considering, many models in the same range- and there was one particular model, the Kawai K6-A, that he sounded vastly better on. That turned out to be the model I bought in the end.
If I was looking for an acoustic now, I would be testing how well it supports my technique. Can I play a full dynamic range on it, particularly how soft can it go. It should be easy to produce a note at any dynamic. I am also looking for sensitivity- if I play with wrong technique, do I sound bad? If I just bash it, it should sound bad. Can I do a nice legato on it, that is, can the keys go from one to the other smoothly. Can I get different key release effects for staccato and similar. Can I make it sound more "singing" (this is really hard to describe, either the sound of it or how to produce it). Can I do things like depress a note silently and hold the pedal, then play other notes and have the open strings ring. If I use arm staccato vs finger staccato, does it sound different. If I really put my back into it for fortissimo, does it sound like a good loud sound, or does it sound harsh.
For a digital, I am looking at how well it replicates the feel of an acoustic. So I would be trying all of the same techniques that I tried on the acoustic, and evaluating them for whether they feel and sound the same. I am not at all bothered about fancy sound samples or flashy things like rhythm tracks and recording. I just want it to feel as realistic as possible so that when I practise on it, I will improve.
|
|
|
Post by keff on Feb 1, 2023 20:28:59 GMT
That appears to be a pretty thorough way of auditioning a piano...thanks for sharing and congratulations on your choice. In your search for a digital have you come across the Kawai NV10-S and if so what were your impressions? I guess I have given up on the idea of trading my little upright for an acoustic grand but I could see myself acquiring the NV10 whilst hanging onto my faithful acoustic.
|
|
|
Post by corenfa on Feb 1, 2023 22:38:43 GMT
That model is certainly on my list. It does feel remarkably like an acoustic. But I need to blag my way into a posh piano shop and try an acoustic grand in order to compare too.. And I'd also like to try the Yamaha AvantGrand.
|
|
|
Post by Zi on Feb 2, 2023 9:22:27 GMT
corenfa - thank you! If I was buying, I'd find that useful and it's really interesting for me to see what pianists are looking for. As I say, I'm just curious. I think it's very interesting how you 'used' the other person there to listen. So you could see another perspective. If you can't rely on someone else being there to play, I guess having someone listen is useful - if you trust their ears. Do you ever record while you're there and then play back or is there too much likelihood that the sound doesn't reproduce accurately enough? My husband never really had the chance to play a range of instruments when he bought his first digital - he relied on reviews for the first one and when he replaced that he just went up to a better one!
|
|