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Post by keff on Feb 11, 2023 22:43:40 GMT
How is a sixteen string lyre tuned?
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Post by pavane on Feb 12, 2023 10:05:06 GMT
How is a sixteen string lyre tuned?
Lowest string is G natural, then the strings proceed upward a natural note at a time, so it's tuned in C. One website I looked at said it could be considered to be tuned to G in Mixolydian mode but I doubt if that's how most purchasers of €50 Chinese lyres will look at it - this one certainly won't!
Apparently you can change the tuning of individual strings to obtain a different key, so the two F strings could be sharpened so give an actual G major scale starting on G. I also read that overtightening the strings on inexpensive lyres can damage them, so going down the flats route might be safer. However, I'm only in this for the basic challenge and won't be doing either. I have downloaded in anticipation a couple of tutor videos playing some simple tunes and they all assume the standard tuning. I think it's unlikely that I'll get to the end of the challenge and think that I can't live without a decent lyre and the best solution to my problem of not being able to play 2 instruments at a level I would like would be to try to play 3, but if that should turn out to be the case, I'll get a better one.
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Post by Zi on Feb 12, 2023 10:32:35 GMT
Some people appear to be playing with one hand and steadying the instrument with the other and some seem to be playing with both. It'll be really interesting to see how you deal with it Pavane. It looks like a really interesting instrument. I assumed it was a form of harp but according to wiki it is considered part of the lute family. Mr Z used to tune my harp slightly flat to reduce tension on the strings - he tunes his guitars the same way - but I don't have that skill! I just tune it till it sounds ok. Even with a digital tuner I find it quite difficult to keep the plucking totally even so that it registers the same way with the tuner. I should think anyone with perfect pitch would be appalled but then they wouldn't listen to my assault on their poor ears in any case. My hearing loss (and now age) has made sure that I can no longer differentiate between slight changes. The book I'm reading suggests that modern appreciation of dissonance is different from how it's been in the past so I'm wondering about comforting myself with the idea that my dissonance is different from everyone else's! I too have wondered about the wisdom of spreading my meagre skills over more than one instrument but I decided I don't care as I'm never ever going to be more than mediocre at it in any case. That doesn't bother me either. I just like the trying. And sometimes I play something and it sounds nice... Even the clarinet produces the odd nice sound... about once a week I think!
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Post by pavane on Feb 12, 2023 11:33:42 GMT
Some people appear to be playing with one hand and steadying the instrument with the other and some seem to be playing with both. It'll be really interesting to see how you deal with it Pavane. It looks like a really interesting instrument. I assumed it was a form of harp but according to wiki it is considered part of the lute family. I too assumed it was a sort of harp. Lutes seem more like guitars and I'm useless with those. Thomann sell a range of dulcimers but I rejected them because of their similarity to guitar. They also sell psalteries and they really do look like fun, but they are relatively expensive so lyre it is. Actually, they had a surprising range of non-traditional instruments that would be fun to try - I've always fancied trying a Japanese koto and they sell them, but the cheapest is over €1000 which is a lot for a try-out. The instruments that EMS sell, that people on these forums generally reference, are probably higher quality, and they have a much bigger range of recorders, but Thomann have a lot more bargain stiff that's better for toe dipping. They are strangely divided into folk instruments and so called "string instruments for music therapy" with lyres in the latter group.
I saw some people playing simple chords using their left hand behind the strings while sort of steadying the thing with their palm and resting it on their lap, while others held on and played simple tunes with right hand only. I will be in the latter camp!
One of the lyre sites recommended tuning to about A=432 to keep the tension down a bit; I will probably do that. I genuinely believe that everyone's personal notions are perfectly good. I accept you can't join an ensemble and play in some way that is different to everyone else, but you can do what you like playing on your own, and who is to say you are wrong? The truth is that it does bother me. Not as much as it once did, but I'd like to be able to play some instrument or other to a standard that I would be happy with. The one I've come closest on is recorder, so it's probably ludicrous trying to play clarinet as well, and it's even more ludicrous getting a lyre!!!
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Post by keff on Feb 12, 2023 11:57:08 GMT
Thanks pavane for explaining the tuning and to both yourself and Zi for the interesting discussion so far.
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Post by Zi on Feb 12, 2023 12:14:08 GMT
I don't think I care about reaching a destination any more. I'd just move the signpost somewhere else anyway. When I started recorder I wanted to play simple carols... My hearing issues started with tinnitus in 2007 - the hearing loss then was minor then but for me it was devastating because my hearing was so incredibly good prior to that. But now I accept it is ropey and it would rule out playing in any kind of group even if I had a group to go to (and much more important, they could put up with me!) So, it doesn't matter. I wish I could line up all those wonderful instruments and have a bash (figuratively) and sometimes literally on all of them. It might save me having to buy them because we don't go out anywhere. Agreed the psalteries look serious fun! I really hope the lyre is fun! I'd hate to think my 20 min challenge has put you somewhere uncomfortable... edit keff -
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Post by pavane on Feb 12, 2023 12:24:26 GMT
Thanks pavane for explaining the tuning
You're more than welcome! I feel inspired to try this by your efforts with the violin, which really seem a lot more demanding than the lyre.
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Post by Zi on Feb 12, 2023 17:39:48 GMT
Mr Z is playing the flute. This is a step in the right direction. He has been inspired by all this 20 min challenge stuff. His flute playing is at the beginner stage but it sounds a lot better (by a long way) than my clarinet playing... Perhaps my role in life is to inspire other people...
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Post by pavane on Feb 12, 2023 17:42:47 GMT
I assumed it was a form of harp but according to wiki it is considered part of the lute family
I just looked that up out of interest to see why it is a member of the lute family. As you probably also discovered, it's because the strings are parallel to the resonator; on a harp they are perpendicular to it. It's funny how classifications aren't always obvious - rather like the old metal woodwinds vs wooden brass instruments issue. From a playing point of view, a lyre seems much closer to harp because both involve plucking individually tuned strings, but viewed from a sound-production perspective, it is more similar to a lute. There's clearly more than one way to skin a musical instrument.
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Post by Zi on Feb 12, 2023 17:53:25 GMT
Actually, the talk of a lyre and what that is reminded me that I was going to ask if you could repeat all that stuff about brass instruments because it still makes my head explode. I came across a cornetto (cornett, zink) because I heard Christopher Monk playing one this morning - he is responsible for the modern version sold by EMS. Apparently, it is a brass instrument. It's really hard work to remember a brass instrument doesn't mean it's made of brass or some metal...
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Post by pavane on Feb 12, 2023 17:59:46 GMT
Brass instrument = player causes the vibration of the air (using the lips - you can experiment by trying to use the tube out of the middle of a roll of, say, wide tinfoil or similar, as a didgeridoo).
Woodwind instrument = the player only provides the airstream and the instrument does the vibration via a labium of some sort in a flute, single reed in a clarinet, double reed in an oboe.
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Post by Zi on Feb 13, 2023 10:57:58 GMT
Thank you. This does not come naturally to me at all! I'd love to play a brass instrument... I wonder if anyone does here? I'll ask on the brass bit...
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Post by Misty on Feb 13, 2023 15:23:23 GMT
Mr Z is playing the flute. This is a step in the right direction. He has been inspired by all this 20 min challenge stuff. His flute playing is at the beginner stage but it sounds a lot better (by a long way) than my clarinet playing... Perhaps my role in life is to inspire other people...
...and maybe to play duets with them too? Clarinet and flute is a match made in heaven!
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Post by Zi on Feb 13, 2023 16:04:40 GMT
Misty - we had a go at playing duets with piano and recorder and recorder and guitar. I play on - whatever happens. Mr Z has to get it right or he stops and then goes over (several times) the bit he got wrong. On the guitar (he's played that since he was a teenager and is a lot more confident) he keeps re-tuning... My sense of rhythm is functionally different from his too... I think we ended up laughing because we got nowhere at all... We did start more times than we played... I'm not sure we actually got through any music...
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Post by pavane on Feb 14, 2023 14:22:07 GMT
Mrs P and I tried 4-handed piano duets once and both ended up laughing, which isn't great when sharing a piano stool. We plan to try some clarinet and piano duets at some point in time - not quite sure when!
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