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Post by corenfa on Feb 1, 2023 20:07:54 GMT
I've never sat down and composed a piece of music from scratch purely as an "act of composition". I've done some theory of music courses and for one of them the final exam included a section where you were given a short verse (4 lines as I recall) and you had to set it to music, so I suppose technically that was composition. I passed but it was really about structure, getting the right sort of cadence in the right place and so on, I doubt if the tune would have won any awards. I've also done various sorts of harmonising, eg given a melody line, fill in the other parts of a traditional SATB score, or writing out a realisation of a figured bass.
Composing used to be one of my dreams but I don't have, and never will have, either the creativity or the skill set. Imagine composing material for, say, the brass section when you have never in your life played a brass instrument?
I have never played woodwind or strings- basically, I think I managed to do it because I've listened to a lot of music, and had musician friends who played different instruments. Listening to lots of music allowed me to get an idea of what idiomatic writing for each instrument was in each era. Talking to musician friends helped me to avoid writing physically unplayable nonsense (not always successfully)! You can memorise ranges of instruments but it's also good to know what the difficulty is of a passage you wrote by showing it to someone who plays that instrument.
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Post by keff on Feb 1, 2023 20:50:20 GMT
Bravo, di molto bravi....there was much deserved applause as you took your bow. Fantastic! Very well done and thanks for sharing.
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Post by Zi on Feb 2, 2023 9:12:12 GMT
corenfa - When it was performed were you part of the audience or did you play during it? And have you composed much subsequently? I can imagine that it is extremely time-consuming and not something one can easily fit into a normal working life. I can't imagine it's the kind of thing you can just pick up easily where you left off.
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Post by pavane on Feb 2, 2023 11:43:27 GMT
I did an academic music degree and that involved quite a lot of composition. I can't tell you what others' composition process is, but this is roughly mine. Thank you! That was really interesting, and how brilliant to have composed something that is subsequently played by an orchestra. Great stuff!
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Post by corenfa on Feb 2, 2023 21:59:28 GMT
I was in the audience- I stood at the back of the hall. I did play in the rehearsal where all the other pieces were read.
I haven't done much composition since, but I have plenty of ideas. I'll get to it at some point. At the moment I've got lots to do so I don't feel the lack of this as long as I've got some music in my life.
Oddly enough because I think about music so much, I probably could just pick it up again
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Post by pavane on Feb 3, 2023 8:37:46 GMT
One of the problems with music is that the skill set is huge compared to many other things and if you didn't start as a child (and I didn't) it's a bit of an uphill struggle. On the one hand there is the practical skill set needed to play an instrument and on the other the theoretical stuff about how music works. I've done some of the theory as I've done all the Open University music modules, both undergrad and postgrad (they cost an absolute fortune now but they used to be a fraction of the price and I got 50% discount on that as a staff member) but there is no way I have anywhere near sufficient command of the skills I would need to orchestrate a piece of music. And as for being able to at least play an instrument - well, I'll probably never get to where I'd like to be with that.
It's nice having music going on in one's head all day - I have that and I used to think everyone else did; I was quite surprised to find out that they didn't. A lot of it is bits of this and bits of that that I know rather than genius-level inspiration though.
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Post by Zi on Feb 3, 2023 9:16:34 GMT
I don't have a skill set at all. But music does bring me joy. We did G1 theory and stopped exams though we did go on to some other grades. We used ABRSM and Trinity but the Trinity exercises drove me to despair because they were so repetitive. Mr Z is a lot more tolerant than I am. I don't have sufficient skills to write a song though I do have enough poetry to set to a melody and writing lyrics wouldn't be an issue. I would falter at a tune so that's a non-starter! I so admire what you've done corenfa. I've written drama for a drama group but writing music is infinitely more complex because there are so many 'lines' and you have to have knowledge of what the instruments can do and how they would combine. I've really enjoyed what you've had to say about it. It will remain for me something unattainable and precious but hearing you talk about it has given me an insight into the act of composing. The OU courses are horrendously expensive now Pavane. I did wonder at doing something with revenge tragedy but the cost was enormous and actually there was somewhere else that was much better equipped to supervise a post grad in revenge tragedy. I just never did it - bought the clarinet instead. Maybe that a mistake!
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Post by corenfa on Feb 3, 2023 9:52:48 GMT
"Thinking about thinking" is a special interest of mine (I think it's called "metacognition"?) so I'm always happy to discuss it. It's what helps me to learn whatever field I need to, because I like thinking about how my mind works. I have no idea how anyone else's mind works so I'm an expert on my own only.
I think if anyone wants to compose, just give it a try. Start with one line, 8 bars, then add more. Stick to what makes you happy- if what you want is to improvise folk style stuff, then do that, it doesn't have to be orchestra stuff. I guess it's a bit like learning to cook, start with beans on toast or grilled cheese before moving on to spag bol and maybe finally Christmas dinner?!
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Post by pavane on Feb 3, 2023 10:13:28 GMT
It crossed my mind to suggest OU courses so I had a look at current prices and was amazed. It's about 15 years since I last did anything but I was paying somewhere around £150 per module I think, so even at full price they were affordable. They are about £6000 now!!!
8 bars of musical beans on toast sounds like a great plan, you really don't have to start with a complete 3-act opera. I've been playing the Vaughan Williams 6 studies in English folk songs and a couple of them are very short and have quite simple accompaniments, so something like that would be a good model. Not that I'll be making a start this afternoon.
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Post by Zi on Feb 3, 2023 10:13:49 GMT
I know what you mean corenfa - I know how my mind works too. It's a very useful skill to have and not everyone is blessed with it. You've made me feel all enthusiastic! I'm good at enthusiastic! Shall we have a composing a small tune thread? I can't be any worse at that than playing the clarinet? Can I?
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Post by Zi on Feb 3, 2023 10:26:49 GMT
pavane - told you so! I really wanted to do *something* because I really enjoyed the Canine Psychology course and I thought to pick up my arts degree and go postgrad with that. But it was an eye-watering amount of money - I'd be better off doing another PhD somewhere or just writing the book! How are young people, just starting out supposed to cope with those costs? What happened to charities breaking even?
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Post by pavane on Feb 3, 2023 13:33:19 GMT
Indeed you did! It's a pity, I met lots of people who were dipping their toes in the waters of knowledge when I was with the OU, but I can't imagine a lot of people are going to give things a quick try at current prices.
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Post by Zi on Feb 5, 2023 10:04:25 GMT
Indeed you did! It's a pity, I met lots of people who were dipping their toes in the waters of knowledge when I was with the OU, but I can't imagine a lot of people are going to give things a quick try at current prices. Exactly. I did the Canine Psych thing because I didn't want to have the bother of organising my own reading and I wanted to be taken in directions that I might not go. I'd love to do some more of that or something else but when you factor in the cost of books and sometimes equipment it really tots up. Training me as a behaviourist was no more expensive and a lot more effective than hiring one especially as all too many of them look for a quick fix and with some dogs there is no quick fix. The Collie was the long, slow haul - all too often the problem with severe abuse of a seriously intelligent animal. So it was money well spent. But that kind of course would be hard to get funding for... and it is recognised as a vocational qualification. It was also a lot cheaper than the OU though actually the OU didn't have anything appropriate. I've had friends who wanted to do the early, music courses with the OU but it's now getting to the stage that you wouldn't just do that on a whim... It's so unfair! There must be lots and lots of people who'd love to do a course not necessarily leading to a degree but out of interest, to stop the brain from rusting and it becomes impossible because of costs... sigh... I've had a look around for composition courses but I think I'd be better starting with a simple song writing something or other and developing theory! You've definitely got a head start with the theory pavane ! That was definitely money well spent then! Oh for a time-machine... I still think there's a big difference between being steeped in the knowledge and practice and then just trying to pick it up. We were talking this morning about Ian Anderson (flautist and lead singer of Jethro Tull a kind of electric folk, rock group). He recorded some of Tull with the LSO and I wondered just how that worked out and who the conductor was... they'd have needed a sense of humour! I must check who it was...
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Post by pavane on Feb 5, 2023 11:37:04 GMT
I've always quite admired Ian Anderson - not a lot of rock 'n' roll flautist about! I read quite an interesting interview with him (I was going to say recently, but it turns out it was a year ago) - it's here if you're interested.
I did some theory courses back in the 80s in a local Conservatorium of Music that were great and so cheap they were almost free, plus you could claim the cost of the course and any materials you bought against income tax which made them even better value. All long gone. I don't think education for education's sake is valued much any more.
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Post by corenfa on Feb 5, 2023 17:52:09 GMT
For anyone who wants to try composing, I recommend just playing around with finding what sounds or combination of sounds mean something to you. I've been trying to do this more since we started discussing it here. Today I've worked out that there are certain combinations of intervals that I like. It doesn't matter if nobody else does, but this is how I would develop my own musical vocabulary.
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