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Post by Zi on Apr 8, 2023 7:57:13 GMT
I'm reading On Playing the Flute by Johann Quantz. He is rather an interesting character and his book is quite thought-provoking. Although it is written ostensibly about the flute, there is actually just a small section devoted to the playing of the flute and much of the rest of it could be read by the player of any instrument at all.
I was first struck by his introductory comments which are about the qualities required of a musician. He starts off by saying that very few people appear to end up in the career that they are best suited by nature because quite often their career path is chosen by someone else. Anyway, he goes on to list all the qualities needed and he has a delightful section about how important it is to be inquisitive and to reflect.
He says that what is required is "Industry founded upon ardent love and an insatiable enthusiasm for music must be united with constant and diligent inquiry, and mature reflection and examination. In this respect a noble pride must inspire him to gradually perfect himself. " What is quite interesting is that he goes on to say that depending on talent is not a good way forward since those who strive hard but have less talent can often succeed very well indeed. And there follows a section about how you need to start studying music when you are young. I was really amused by that as I started when I was about 60 and I quite often think that not much progress has been made in the last 10 years...
By the way, the publication is dated 1752 and Quantz is sad that the study of music isn't taken seriously...
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Post by keff on Apr 8, 2023 11:46:41 GMT
He says that what is required is "Industry founded upon ardent love and an insatiable enthusiasm for music must be united with constant and diligent inquiry, and mature reflection and examination. Would like to suggest that the word music in the quotation can be exchanged for any other subject, physics in my case. However when it comes to music what is probably missing in my case is constant and diligent enquiry and I offer the following example demonstrated by study of the Bach French suites. Approaching the various movements I tend to jump straight in and try to play both hands together and in so doing completely miss the underlying theme or tune. This in contrast to my teacher who generally looks for the tune as the first thing she does. I end up thinking I will never get the hang of this, somewhat pessimistically because as I learn pieces where the tune hasn't been pointed out to me it does eventually become clear. Even though I am now retired I will never shake off being a physicist but on the other hand most unlikely to ever describe myself as a musician.
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Post by Zi on Apr 9, 2023 7:41:28 GMT
Yes, you're right - it could. He is an interesting character. He was the son of a blacksmith and was taught by his father to follow the trade but his father died when he was young so he had the chance to decide what he wanted to do for himself - up to a point. He wanted to be a musician. Shortly after he started his musician apprenticeship that relative died but luckily he was taken on by someone else. So his views about young people choosing for themselves are very much shaped by his own experience. His book is addressed to people who are intending to be musicians/composers so there is much that wouldn't be relevant to someone who has learned to play as a hobby or interest but nevertheless he is interesting and either the original is well written or the translator/editor has made a really good job. He has things to say about practice which I'll put up here at some stage - maybe under practice - because it's quite interesting. Bit busy at present with the garden and life stuff but hopefully things will go back to their usual predictability soon and give me more time for other things.
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Post by pavane on Apr 9, 2023 9:38:10 GMT
Maybe I was a bit hasty in giving up on Quantz! It's a long time since I tried it, so I don't remember how much I read or where I began.
Somewhat off topic, it's interesting how one chooses to describe oneself post retirement. I never liked having to categorize myself by saying what I "did", I usually said something vague and left it at that as far as I could. I describe myself as a boat restorer on Linkedin - I was planning to close my account but it turned out to be useful for signing in to other things so I kept it but didn't want to remain labelled as something I no longer had anything to do with. Boat restorer isn't even vaguely true any more either. Maybe I will change it to musician just for sake of it - I put enough time and effort into music that it would be fair enough to say it's What I Do. It's funny how describing yourself as something, particularly anything artistic, implies you believe yourself to be good at that thing.
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Post by keff on Apr 9, 2023 11:13:12 GMT
If asked what my occupation is I always think it is best to say retired. I was employed as a professional engineer and remember on one occasion speaking with a colleague who was fearing retirement because he wouldn't be able to say he was an engineer. I was trying to say that being a physicist is a frame of mind rather than occupation. Even though I spend many happy hours trying to make music I doubt if I have the same frame of mind for it.
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Post by Zi on Apr 9, 2023 12:06:58 GMT
That's interesting. I'd say 'retired'. But I wouldn't say a retired anything. I spend most of my time now doing arty stuff, renovating this wreck of a house (we're on to the garden now but it's largish we may never finish it) and I still 'work' with The Collie at times but not with the intensity I did when she first arrived. Nowadays it's to amuse her. She likes learning. The trouble is if you say 'I'm a retired whatever' you're in danger of being pigeon-holed much as one is when one works. Mind 'retired' probably does that anyway.
re the fearful colleague - some people define themselves by their occupation. I never did that and I'm really happy (as in deliriously) to be retired. It's great. I'm giving myself the childhood I think I should have had.
As for Quantz, I find him interesting but the book isn't a cover-to-cover read for me because of the chunk that's about the flute and the chunk that really expects the reader to be a professional musician. However, he seems to have dealt with a lot of issues that are still the same today and that is both amusing as in 'wry smile' and exasperating. He is refreshingly unconventional in some ways (even by today's standards). The other thing about him is that disaster seemed to follow him around a bit...
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Post by pavane on Apr 10, 2023 10:19:00 GMT
I'm really happy (as in deliriously) to be retired. It's great.
It is, indeed, absolutely fantastic. Mind you, I always believed it would be - retirement has pretty much always been my goal as far as work was concerned.
I worked as a university lecturer for many years and some of my colleagues were genuinely awful, yet they still called themselves lecturers. I'm probably no worse at being a musician than they were at lecturing. If asked, I do say I'm retired and I don't have any kind of problem with that, but maybe I'll try "musician" next time I'm asked and see how it goes.
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Post by Zi on Apr 10, 2023 12:14:31 GMT
Let us know what happens and if you end up being roped into something... I could say 'dog behaviourist' as I have the piece of paper. However, I'd never admit to that title for fear I end up with loadsaproblems - I've had enough of other people's problems and I'm not sure how well saying There's nothing wrong with the dog - it's you that's the problem - would go down... And although I've turned The Collie's life around it's because she wanted to 'work' with me... Behaviourists can truly mess things up if they get it wrong... I'd not want that on my conscience either. I guess saying 'musician' is less likely to leave people traumatised (in my case as long as I didn't actually play anything for them...)
Quantz now thinks that judging a musician's playing ability on one hearing is wrong... he says you have to give them a bit of a chance. He thinks music attracts the wrong kind of criticism often based on having a 'name' which is sometimes unfounded... He thinks this is more the case than anything else but I think art is equally plagued by what 'experts' decide is 'good' or 'bad' and paintings can suddenly become 'good' when previously they weren't just by someone 'proving' they were painted by a well-known name... But I take his point.
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Post by pavane on Apr 10, 2023 19:17:35 GMT
I guess saying 'musician' is less likely to leave people traumatised (in my case as long as I didn't actually play anything for them...) Yes, the art world is very strange, because it is so highly curated by experts. Music obviously is to some extent, but it's probably more inder the control of the musician, if only because your personal copy of a piece of music, whether CD or stream or sheet music, is comparitively low cost.
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Post by Zi on Apr 12, 2023 6:59:24 GMT
Quantz has advice about how to listen. I end up thinking that what art is, is a slippery beast. One of our neighbours (before we moved) used a picture drawn by her young daughter as a Christmas card. We thought it delightful and she explained how she'd so wanted to 'correct' bits of it. We tried to explain how difficult it was to return to the innocence of those early drawings because one you've been taught perspective and shading etc, it's really hard to ditch them. And that the picture was perfect the way it was. Quantz wants his listeners to be educated in music in some ways but as that's not always possible he has ways of dealing with that too. But along with accepting 'acquired taste' art and admiring technique, I still think for me that what appeals to be most is more important that whether the artist has mastered some technique or other. I can easily say 'That's very well done' without actually liking the result. From the point of view of pictures, I'd rather have the house filled with ones I like (warts and all) rather than ones chosen for their expertise. And I think I feel the same about music.
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Post by pavane on Apr 12, 2023 14:10:17 GMT
I agree - there is very little correlation between executional (is that a word?) expertise and artistic merit.
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Post by Zi on Apr 13, 2023 7:44:41 GMT
I agree - there is very little correlation between executional (is that a word?) expertise and artistic merit. It ought to be a word. I think I've almost done with Quantz for the moment. He is flute-orientated although he does have a lot to say about music and composition and so on. I find him interesting - he was so clearly shaped by his early experiences and it seems to have led him into being liberal in some ways. It would be interesting to hear what the flautists made of his remarks about playing the flute. Reading him has reminded me how playing an instrument is not just about understanding music and reading it - there's also the mechanical process of making a sound and with some instruments that mechanical process is quite difficult. I'm not sure what to read next!
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Post by pavane on Apr 15, 2023 11:08:24 GMT
I'm not sure what to read next! I just checked and the last Booker Prize winner I read was in 2005, so plenty of opportunities to find something there, maybe. Seriously, I think part of the reason I didn't get on with Quantz was that I read quite a few books about music and basically got to the point where I didn't think I learned anything that was either useful or interesting, and I would rather either listen to music or try to improve my playing of it, but not read about it. I do have "Lives of the Great Composers" that I haven't read and I think I will read that: I truly am more interested in the contents of Bach's wine cellar right now than anything else much about him, though Mrs P and I are really enjoying working our way (randomly) through All Of Bach on youtube.
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Post by Zi on Apr 16, 2023 17:05:17 GMT
I can relate to that. I tend to have a non-fiction on the go so I wasn't sure whether to read some more 'music stuff' or what. Decided to go with a re-read of Pinker's How The Mind Works. I've got a book about Baroque music waiting to be read but it's way above me at the moment. Maybe it always will be.
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Post by corenfa on Apr 26, 2023 11:21:22 GMT
I haven't read Quantz or any similar philosophy, but to me a musician is someone who makes music. It's true that not all people who make music are professional musicians, but I think all that's needed for the basic definition is to make music.
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